Episode 8: Exploring Folklore by Taylor Swift

In this episode of Home Records, Slice and Emily dive into folklore by Taylor Swift. They explore the surprise album that marked a dramatic shift in Taylor’s career, trading stadium pop for intimate storytelling and indie-folk textures. From the album’s unforgettable characters and interconnected narratives to its Grammy-winning legacy, they discuss what makes folklore such a defining record. Along the way, they share their favorite songs, unpack the famous love triangle at the heart of the album, and reflect on why these stories continue to connect with listeners years later. Whether you’ve had folklore on repeat since 2020 or you’re hearing it for the first time, join them for a conversation that’s part music history, part personal reflection—and a celebration of one of the most influential albums of the decade.

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Find us at @emilymyersmusic and @theslicemusic.

Transcript

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Hi, I'm Slice. And I'm Emily. And welcome to another episode of Home Records, the podcast where we, two married musicians, pick an album at random from our two thousand piece vinyl collection and discuss its personal and cultural importance. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. Oh my gosh. The last episode we recorded at night, and this morning we're recording at our normal morning time, and I've had my coffee, and I am a different person. Yeah. Do you feel how energized I am? I need a I need to calm down. I think I liked Night Emily better than right now. Did you? Do you like Night Emily? You said you thought you thought Night Emily was better. I didn't say better, I said chiller. Chiller was the word. Yes. I'm pumped. I'm pumped to be here. I'm excited about our record today. Yes. And uh kind of continuing the trend of talking about more relatively contemporary records. What is the album we are talking about today? Folklore. Goodbye. T Swift. T Swizzle. The Queen. Taylor Swift. Mm-hmm. We got an album for the girls. Well, we've we've had uh we had one like that as well already. Yeah, we've had two albums for the girls. Yes. And uh Yeah, we uh decided to do this one. I mean, it it probably is par for the course to talk about a Taylor Swift album at some point. Yeah. And especially, you know, talking about records made by women artists as well, and being representative of all the genres, all the uh, you know, pretty much ever every kind of artist you can think of. And this is a very unique and special one, I would say, um, in the grand scheme of contemporary music. And it's a it's a very unique one in the grand scheme of Taylor Swift's discography. Well, I said I feel like we should do a Taylor Swift record, which you actually have a lot in your collection. Well, I do, but um I didn't start buying them until this one came out. Yeah, yeah, that was the thing. I said we have to do a Taylor Swift record, but you can choose which one, and this was the one that you chose. Yes, and that was for a couple of very specific reasons. Um I think for me, folklore was the album that really got me, you know, really invested in one of her records because I've listened to some of her previous stuff, but here's my interesting history with Terra Swift's music. I remember a long time ago, I attempted, I really say attempted, I really mean that word in its definition, to listen to Red. And not really when it came out, but maybe a a few years later. And I think for me, because of the production at the time, and especially because of how they tuned her vocals on that record on the original version, and they did this with really all her early records, and that was a big trend with some pop music at that time period anyway. I couldn't really, I couldn't listen to it, I couldn't finish listening to it. Now, I've listened to since then the Taylor's version of Red, and that's great, and I and I can listen to that, you know. It doesn't have to be And it fixed that, those issues. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't have the same uh same ones there, the same issues, yeah. But I also did listen to 1989 when it came out, and um we might have mentioned this in the last episode. I I do I did like that album, but I I did feel really salty when it beat out uh Kendrick Lamar's Topimpa Butterfly. Which funny enough was our last record we covered, which wasn't that was not on purpose. Yeah, I think Topimpa Butterfly is an objectively better record, you know. And I liked 1989 uh fine. I liked I liked the singles. I thought it was a really good pop record, you know. And that was that. Um didn't listen to Reputation, uh, didn't really care for the singles. I did listen to Lover, I can't remember if I listened to it at the time it came out or a little bit later, and I thought that was a really good pop record. I thought I even thought that was better than 1989 for my money anyway. Which, like anyone who knows me knows that Lover is my personal favorite. Which is funny because I think in terms of awards and things like that, it didn't doesn't get talked about really much. Or didn't really get a lot of attention in that way. You know, I get annoyed. Is that what you're calling it? I I think that's the word. Uh you get annoyed. I yeah. I know I thought I thought I thought it was a noun. I thought you were saying I get annoyed. I I get annoyed because I feel like music is so culturally accepted by the narrative around records and around celebrities, and there isn't really a better example of that than Taylor Swift. These days, anyway. You know, like the lore around her records is just is a big reason why they're popular. And the thing about Lover was it's the COVID record. It's the record that the tour got canned and all the promo got weird, and it's the record that came out and then COVID happened, and so it just didn't get the life that I think it would have if it had come out in a normal year. Well, didn't it come out in 2018 though? I didn't think so. I thought it came out, I thought like the tour was COVID and it was cancelled. I don't I I don't remember there being a- If I'm wrong about all this, we need to cut this. I don't remember there ever being a tour for Lover. Um, there weren't even any shows I think booked for. No, but that's be it's because it was canceled. Um, it came out in 2019, so I think you're right. Yeah. So yeah, the timing of that makes it you know, I for some reason I thought it came out like a a year earlier or something like that. Because that was the whole deal was like she released Lover, she was starting to do promo, she was starting to get ready for the tour, COVID happened, everything got canned, and then she said, Well, what do I do in this dead season? And she made three records, and so when she came back to live shows, she's like, Well, I can't like I was gonna tour lover, I can't tour lover. Now there's midnight folklore evermore. Well, we gotta you know, we have to represent at least four records, and that was where the Ares thing came in. And of course, um as the aforementioned record folklore that we're talking about, it was a result of basically a result of the yeah, the tour cancellation and COVID ha because of COVID and uh her making those records, especially specifically folklore nevermore, which of which came out like a year within each other and both are so my and both and both are aesthetically and and thematically the same. Yeah, definitely. So my my theory is Lever would have been better if the whole visual element in the stage show had had come to life like it was supposed to. Well, ironically, because um Cruel Summer became a retroactive hit um uh you know sometime after COVID ended, and because that was never a single initially when the album came out, the single was me, which I I still stand behind my statement that I think that's my least favorite or the least good Taylor Swift single. And there was another one I can't remember at the top of my head. But my uh on a side note, I will say my favorite song from Lover is Paper Rings, I think. I love that song. I love that album. It's got like this go-go's type of influence in it. I uh I love it. But uh, anyways, we're uh But we're not discussing that record. Yeah, we are not discussing that record. Um I got sidetracked when you were listing the lineage. Well, well, well, because we had to explain uh yeah, exactly the background of how this album came about. Yeah. And you know, just to kind of kick it off, this album aesthetically was very different than what Taylor had done before. And musically in some way. She uh she had worked with Jack Antinoff a little bit on 1989, starting with that, and he she continues to do it on this album, and then she began to work with uh Aaron Desner of the National Fame. And right it's really I think I think it was really Aaron Desner's collaborations where that set the precedence for what this album would sound like. But what's also interesting is like I have to wonder how exactly it came about, um, because I I didn't look it up necessarily or I didn't research it as much, but because this album was for the most part recorded entirely remotely. Yeah, yeah, I I forgot about that. Yeah, and what I mean by that too is that because while we were re-listening to the record this morning on vinyl and going through the liner notes, pretty much all the Aaron Desner joints he played and programmed everything on it. And anything else that was recorded, like strings and saxophones, those were recorded in the homes of those players. Right. Man, I completely forgot about that. Yeah, the whole like it's just it's a pandemic record, you know? It's like you can't forget about that. That really colors the whole thing was it was it was a surprise drop in the pandemic, people recorded it in their homes. It felt like a very intimate folk singer-songwriter record, which I feel like also just fit the time everybody was walking through. Yeah, there's definitely uh that kind of vibe, this sort of um very singular vibe with it in in the sense of it it feels like the record you would listen. It's a very, it's very I I don't know if I wouldn't say the songs themselves are completely introspective, but they're definitely intimate in that way. Yeah, I just think the recording, like the production is intimate. Mm-hmm. You know? I mean it There's not a lot of there's not a lot of poppiness to it, with a couple of exceptions. Yeah, I don't consider this like a pop record. I think of this as like a singer-songwriter folk record. Um and I think the minimal the minimal production, even though like obviously bedroom pop is like a minimal production, this is not bedroom pop either. It's not it's not. It's uh it's a little it's got a bit bigger uh soundscape than that. But yeah, I mean I would call it folk pop, if anything. Um because some of the melodies are still very poppy. But this also has uh Taylor, you know, singing in in um in some ways where she's kind of flirted with before, but you know, there's a lot of stuff, especially in the earlier in the track list, where she's singing in her lower register, kind of borderline talk singing in that way, but not talk singing in like a millennial pop way, but more in like uh in her own way, in her own unique way. And I think the songs themselves are there's a lot of really great highlights, which we'll get into. And I think in general, what I really liked about it was in general the vibe that it was creating, that it was a listen, you know. I and yes, I I intently listen to the lyrics and see what they're about and we'll go into that, but for me, it's just a very well-crafted, well-produced record. And I don't and I don't say that just for being a Taylor Swift record. I I think I feel that way in general. I agree with that. I I feel like the production on this record was very, very tasteful. That's something I really love about Jack Jack's production. I always just feel like he really knows how to serve a song because he is a songwriter first and an artist first, so I really think he comes with like that bring unique perspective of not just what is an artist trying to say, but he he just doesn't overdo a lot. I agree with that, but I think also the minimalism is more Aaron Desner than Jack Answer. That could be no because I just don't know his work as much. Well, because Aaron Desner produced most of the album. Oh, okay. He produced most of the album. There's some most of the songs, there's some songs that Taylor wrote with Jack, but most of it was is with Aaron Desner. And because the national, I mean, if people ever listen to the National, I've listened to a little bit. I've listened to a little bit, yeah. You know, that's that's definitely kind of your um kind of classic ethereal um arena rock type of type of stuff, you know. Great band. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, did we see them at Bourbon and Beyond? I know they were on the they were on the list. I think I think we missed them. I think we were I don't think we I don't remember them. I think I was somewhere else, but I know they they did a they did a set. I think we were we were on it, we were at a different stage or different stages at that time. Yeah. So incidentally, they also played when I went to Ridefest back in 2013, they were playing after uh I think it was after Flaming Lips, but after I saw Flaming Lips, I pieced out to go see Primus do an after show concert. So I missed the national there. Yeah, I they were just they were just never really like in my wheelhouse of the kind of rock music I listened to or listened to even at that time. But I think in terms of this collaboration with on this one and nevermore, I thought Aaron Desner was um you know kind of an unsuspected but perfect fit for this kind of music, you know. And I'm gonna highlight yeah, I I'm gonna I'm gonna put put the emphasis more on Aaron Desner because I think it was because of him that Jag Antinoff produced the joints that he did the way he did on this record. Yeah, I can see that. It's because of Aaron. Yeah. Yeah, I just I really I really do enjoy the production on this. I l I, you know, am a singer-songwriter at heart, so I love I that's the parts of Taylor's collection that I like. I like the singer-songwriter more centered records. Um like I was never really drawn to 1989 personally, because I think it is a legitimate pop record where like this is a this is a lyric-heavy, folkier record, so it's always been one of my favorites. Well, part of that is that in the past Taylor tended to write lyrics that was basically, you know, spieling drama that she was having um in her personal life or with people, etc. And she does she's not doing that at all on this record. It's more it's more just general storytelling, you know. Yeah, I didn't think about that, but I I do enjoy that, you know. I mean that's I think for me, yeah. I mean, that's I think that's why this album had a wider appeal, arguably. Yeah, um, not a more mainstream appeal, but a wider appeal in a different way, because you know, for the people that really were not interested in Taylor's drama like I am, not interested, um, it just gave us uh it just shifted the focus, and I think that gave some some listeners and new fans something to latch on to with it. That that is a great point. I I really hadn't thought about that. And I will say, I when I think about what shifted in her narrative and how critics saw her, I feel like that piece of it did change her perception. All of a sudden we're talking about her being this master songwriter and this craftsman. I'm not saying that wasn't happening before this record. It was it was a mixed bag, it it kind of depended who you were talking to. Because I think some critics definitely um got probably a bit tired of the T Swift narrative of like everyone's the problem but me kind of thing. Yeah, I I understand that. And it's I will say the narrative of this record is it's a nice departure from some of those themes. Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is I remember when I was listening to it at the time, and maybe it was because of COVID, I didn't think it was very long. I thought it was a pretty nicely uh nicely timed record. The funny thing is leaving listening to Unvinyl like we did this morning, I'm like, I I feel sometimes longer records, it feels quicker to listen to on vinyl than when you're going straight through on a CD in your car or on a CD player or MP3 player or whatever you're listening to. You know, um, yeah, I thought it was um I thought it was like a really good collection of songs. I didn't think there was any unneeded filler on the record, in my opinion. I agree. And this was and really this was the album I felt like probably not since maybe not since 1989 and more, probably even more so than 1989, that it pretty much had universal acclaim from from pretty much everybody in terms of like, yes, this is the Taylor Swift record that um you know that we uh that we enjoy and that feels like there's something for everybody. And that's how I feel about this record. I think there is somebody, something for everybody. And you definitely have your typical T Swift isms in her lyric writing, but and and they definitely show up, I think, in bits of the of uh in some bits early on in the record, especially that can maybe be a little bit off-putting, but if you really give it time and you really settle into especially those first four tracks, then I think you reward yourself by really starting to kind of sink into the world of this record. Yeah. Should we talk about some tracks we love? I think we should. And uh let's just start from the beginning because uh, like I said before, I think the first four tracks really um are yeah, the first four are really strong. Yeah, the first one. Yeah, it's a great opening. Yeah, you know, and last record we talked about to Pimper Butterfly, we talked about like one, two punches or hat tricks, you know, and this definitely has a hat trick of it and then some, and we'll get into that in a second. Of course, the album starts with the one, which I like. I mean, when I so when we when we pick our tracks, like we don't really talk about it. We just kind of I I know we have a different process, but I always kind of just I'm like, what are my favorites? And the one always comes up for me for this record. I just always really like that one. It's it's the song I feel like I walk away, and that's the song I'm still singing, even though it's the first song on the record. Um there's just something about it. Yeah, I agree. And of course, Cardigan, the second track, which was like the single, um, or one of the singles from this album that got you know, that was a hit, and that a lot of people I like that one too. A lot of people hide highlighted that. I like I like the minimalist um groove of that one, the sort of indie folk popness of the production and that one, especially, which like you said, with like like I think you mentioned to me before, with the one really just sets the tone. Like yeah, it just tells you this is the sound we're in. Yeah. And I also just like I think the other thing I love about the one is it's I just love the concept of it. Like, it's so I mean, I have felt that way deeply, like, oh, I wish you would have been the one. Not in a heartbreaky way, just in like a just at the time I thought that was it and it wasn't, and man, that would have been really cool if it was. That's okay, it's not. I also just like love that sentiment. Um, I love that it's not like intense, if that makes sense. It's like a it's a heartbreak song, but it's not really like a heartbreak. It's just like a man. Yeah, and I think it that's that's pretty much the same um vibe with a lot of these songs, you know, whatever they end up being about. Because that's the thing with certain Taylor Swift songs, especially songs like me in the past, is that they can definitely be overblown if it's not reined in in a certain way. And this album really I I guess the one one thing to say is it shows a lot of restraint, which which which depending on the music or the songs, is like sometimes you don't need it, but sometimes it's a nice um element to have because it keeps everything grounded, you know. And for this kind of record, that was definitely what they were going for. And I also, of course, the third track, The Last America Great American Dynasty, which one of my absolute favorite songs. I think I I really like that song. I think the title is it's kind of a it's a T Swiftism in terms of like her very she can have very heavy-handed titles, um, which actually which which which definitely existed in her last record too. Yeah. Um, we don't talk about that out, but anyways. Well, and that to me, like I there are things I really like about Taylor and there are things I really I mean respect. I don't think that you can not respect what she does and pay attention to what she does, but there are some things that um I don't love, and that is the thing I don't love, is when it's super heavy-handed. And I feel like Great American Dynasty, it could have been heavy-handed, but she restrained it. Yeah, the low. And that's it's like her at her best. Yeah. That's what I love about it. I think that's like as as as as uh far as she should go or could go in in that kind of song that that works. Yeah, I just it's like she took it to a level of like, man, I haven't ever heard a story told that way. And like, that's just wonderful storytelling, and she just didn't take the next step, and that's it's just like it is her best version of writing to me. Yeah, I think what I also like about the lyric writing on the psalm overall is that it's very it's poetic, but in a way that is very um straightforward. There's a lot of a lot of short phrases on these. That even the lyrics themselves are minimalistic. Not you know, maybe not not necessarily in the vocabulary, but more in the phrasing and in the line writing. It's very matter of Fact in a lot of ways because of that. You know, very short phrases, very to the point, you know, ideas that in this case I think really kind of flow nicely into each other, whether or not their stream of consciousness, whether or not um they do connect in a in a storytelling way or in a narrative way. I think she really hit a home run with that approach on this record. The next one, of course, the next track that's on here that I really like is Exile. Yeah, and you added this one. So tell tell us why you like this one. Well, I mean, uh, what intrigued me about it was the Bonivere uh collaboration, which she didn't write this song with Bonivere, but Bonivere was just a guest singer on it. Um which that collab feels very like long time coming. And well, it's a great record for that collab. It's interesting because Bonivare is somebody who's only really flirted around with mainstream collaborations. I mean, in between his first album that came out back in 2008 or so, Fore Emma Forever Ago, which is probably I would say the best indie folk record, indie song singer-songwriter record of the 2000s. It's um it's an incredible record, and he recorded it all on his own um in two weeks in a log cabin while being sick with mono. That was that was how he recorded that album was after a breakup too. Um and then in between that he was collaborating with uh Kanye West on a couple tracks on his My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy record, which which that was a very seminal uh record when that came out, so that definitely heightened his profile for sure. And then his second record came out, and that album totally blew my mind. I listened to that album incessantly when it came out. I saw the that tour twice. Um we should add him to our list of artists to see together. I've actually never seen him, and I would I would like that concert. Well, whenever he uh whenever he comes back, whenever he comes back comes back around here. So but but what's what's unique about Bonivera is that every record is so different, every tour he does is completely different. You know, he he might use maybe the same one or two musicians, but when I saw him, it was like a 10-piece ban. And I think the tour after that, which I did not see, it was like a five-piece band, you know. And yeah, he's done a lot of side projects and side quests and things like that. And this was one of those sign quests. And the thing with Bonivare is usually on his music, he tends to sing in his uh falsetto. That's that, and that was like his signature sound on the on his first uh Boni Vare record. Justin Vernon, of course, is his real name. And Bonivere is the name of the project. So to hear him singing in his like, you know, kind of regular speaking slash chess voice, because I've had conversations with people that are like, oh, I don't really like his falsetto. I like it when he's singing like in just his normal register, which you know uh I don't I that might be neither here here nor there, but in terms of him emoting uh vocally on this song was a very unique juxtaposition and yeah and combination with Taylor Swift's vo voice. Because Taylor Swift, you know, uh for all of her artistry, she's never necessarily been the greatest singer, and she's not necessarily trying to be a great singer, but um I would say by I think but definitely by lover, she definitely was definitely like up to par in some ways as a really, really great singer, you know, really good singer, how whatever you want to however you want to measure it. And this is the record that really uh folklore in general where you really hear her as herself without any production um you know production tricks or anything like that. It's just very down to earth, and I think that's what Bonny Verde does really well at. While Bonny Ver also uses a lot of effects like vocoders and things like that, but at the end of the day, you know, he was very head-on with how to approach this song, I think, you know. Yeah. Yeah, I really I really like his vocal on that track. To me, it's not the most interesting thing about that track to me is the bony bear vocal. I like the vocal. Other than that, it's not my favorite off the off the record, but it just comes down to to me the structure of the song. I it's just it's not as ear-catching to me as some of the others, but I do love him on the song. I the collab is what I like about that song. Yeah. Yeah. And from there, it just kind of goes down the list. I mean, those first um four songs were all Aaron Desner joints. Yeah. And to me, they are they really are the strongest part of the record. Um, I do like My Tears Ricochet. I l I really like the production on that song. I like how it kind of kicks in halfway through with the groove. I like kind of the cool vocal effect. It's kind of echoey on her vocal right before that groove kicks in. It's probably my favorite critical. That song was produced by Jack, but it was solely written by Taylor. Hmm. Yeah, I really, I really like the production on that. I quite like that song too. Um August, I think, which is that one I think is probably the most poppy melody out of the entire record, because it has some of those like pop isms, Taylor Swift isms that she, you know, parts in the melody where she kind of throws her voice just ever so slightly, you know, in the melody. I love the way that feels. Like to me, there's not there's nothing you just can't beat a good feeling song. Like a song you listen to and you're it's like, man, that feels good. That makes me want to roll my windows down and just like cruise with that song in the background. That that you know, it just captures a season really well, which I love. Like, August really does kind of feel like that, the way that sounds. Yeah, I quite like that song as well. And um I don't I you know I can't remember if that was one of my I mean that's the other song that gets talked about a lot. Cardigan is one of them. August is the second one and the the third one we'll talk about here in a bit. Um, I do want to highlight the uh the couple songs I think you said you you didn't remember when as we were listening to it. Yeah, we were we were listening to the record together this morning. I was like, man, I I just don't even remember those songs. They're like three in a row. I'm like, well it's funny because I I don't I don't remember these songs in the sense that they pop into my head every now and then, but then I'm like listening to them, it's like, oh yeah, I remember these songs, and that was uh the following tracks, uh This Is Me Trying and Illicit Affairs, which I I enjoy the song writing of This Is Me Trying and the production of Illicit Affairs. Uh to me, the only other track on the record that's really special is Mad Woman. I I really enjoy that song. Again, I I think that and Great American Dynasty are the only two songs where you do get a little bit of the Taylor narrative in there. Um the other one that you do, and this is the third song that's a really big highlight is Betty. Oh, I forgot about Betty. I do love Betty. So I love Betty, yeah. Interesting note about Betty is that it's the only track on this album that was a joint collab with both Aaron Desner and Jag Antinoff. They didn't they didn't co-write the song with her, but they both co-produced the record with that song, that song with Taylor. It's the only one on this album where that happens. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Betty. Yeah, I Betty is one of my favorite in the whole Taylor Swift discography in general. I just I think there's something so sweet about that song. I think um, as a songwriter, what a great way to stretch your skills by writing a song that's just a complete fable. Um and I I just uh there's something really sweet about that. Yeah, I agree. I I thought it was also like one of her more it it was poppy, but it was kind of an understated vocal as well, which I quite which I quite enjoyed. Um I mean that's the funny thing is that there is I was thinking about this before we listened to it, because I know it'd been a while since I listened to it, and I was like, do I remember if this because I'm looking at the first four tracks and I'm like, oh I love these tracks, and then I'm just like, what did that was this album front-loaded or because I because I I I I um I have that weird thing feeling also with Evermore. I'm like, was that album kind of backloaded? I don't know, but it's it really is kind of spread where you know some of these songs maybe you don't remember at the top of your head, but it not only fits the vibe, but it also serves as these kind of interesting passages as you move through some the songs that are really the highlights, and it's very it's spread out in a very in a very creative way, I think. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Oh man, I just love Betty. I I love this idea that's in Betty, and it's the lyric idea of like the worst thing I ever did to somebody was what I did to you. That's to me women female friendships are such a complicated thing sometimes. And they can be the most beautiful thing in their life, and they can also be a hard thing. There can be some riffs that happen in female friendships, and I think what I love about Betty is it like talks about something that I feel like any female friendship has probably gone through, especially like when you're younger, because that song is supposed to be about a young character, and I just like I mean I felt that I thought it was about a relationship. It is, but like, isn't she talking? Isn't the whole thing she's talking to Betty like Oh yeah? I'm sorry, I wasn't your boyfriend. But like they're young, like it's like a middle spirit. Well, you know, it's funny, it kind of reminds me of like um with this new Casey Musgraves album just came out, and there's a song that she did with um Rana Lambert, and they've had you know a relative uh feud for you know a long time, and Casey was like, Look, you need to write this song with me. We know we we know our beef, but we have this in common, so you know, I think we're I think we're too old to just, you know, just be thinking about that. So let's just let's just get together and do the thing, you know, and there is I think to me, yeah, Betty represents the sort of this transition into an adult mindset of how you should handle those kinds of things, you know. Yeah. And I mean, the funny thing is about rock stars stealing each other's girlfriends is a tale as old as time, you know. And and and I and I say that as like when these rock stars are like in their twenties or something like that, you know. Sure, sure. And I don't know, it was maybe a different perception about it at that time. I mean, you know, and it's funny because Taylor Swift is I don't know if she's ever had another song that's really been about stealing a friend's guy or the well, probably about the guy cheating on both of them or being a two-timer. I don't know. I can't know about that. I can't remember. I I wish I was somewhat more I mean, I've listened to all of Taylor's records by this point. Even her first one. I've listened to that, you know. I just don't always recall the uh certain details of the uh Taylor Scottuufra, if you will. Yeah, but I I yeah, that does kind of cover all the tracks for me. I mean, to be fair, we cover there are a lot of tracks that get listed for me as highlights on this record, which I think says a lot about the record as a whole. And it's one of those records I think you can appreciate even if because one of the arguments I always think about is oh well, it's more of that question of like, do lyrics matter? You know? Especially in pop music. And there can there is an argument to be made for both sides of it. I think you have to accept that yes, they do and no that they don't. I think it just kind of depends on the artist. I think there are some artists that you don't listen to lyrics first, you listen to it for a vibe first. And I I do think that everything has to pass the vibe check, but there are certain artists where, you know, you are gonna actually go look up the lyrics. I think Taylor Swift is one of those, I think Noah Khan is one of those, I think Jason Isabel is one of those, I think Zach Bryan is one of those, Casey Musgraves. I don't think that like Geese is one of those, like for an example of like a band that's coming right now. Like I'm listening to the vibe of Geese. Yeah, and I agree with that. But the funny thing for me with this record is that I can not pay attention to what the lyrics are and still enjoy listening to it. You know, and that's why I'm saying like they matter and they don't matter, you know. It's important to have good lyrics or at least good sounding lyrics, again, depending on the context of the music. But for this, this and I think with this album, it is Tier Swift's best songwriting. And you know, by this point, for most of her songwriting, it tends she tends to just top line and write the lyrics because her producers will create the tracks and send them to her, and then she'll, you know, record what the melody where you're given a track, an instrumental track, or a demo or something like that, and then and there's no melody, there's no lyrics, and you have to write the lead vocal melody and the lyric that goes with it. And you know, people have been doing this for quite some time, and it's because of technology and things like that. You could, you know, just be sending files here and there all the time to uh trade ideas and to write songs remotely, you know. And because it was COVID, that was kind of the way they had to do it. That's a big thing in pop, hip hop, rap. It I mean, those genres are really big on top lining. In our world, we we don't you don't really see that at all. Well, that's not the way I've worked here. Well, that's not who you like, that's not the kind of artist you are. Well you you have a very, very big say. Well, the funny thing is that I've also kind of done sort of the uh uh uh a different kind of thing, whereas like the Elton John thing where I can someone can give me lyrics and I can yeah, you know, write write the music to it. That's the Elton John thing. Elton John did that with Bernie Toppin. They were they they've been writing together for over fifty years and they've never been in the same room writing the song at the exact same time. Yeah. You know, and and people like um Glenn Tilburg and Chris Different from Squeeze were kind of the same way in some of their collaborations where Chris would have the lyrics in and Glenn would put the music to it. They all they also had some where it was like a little bit vice versa, or maybe Glenn had most of the idea and Chris would help finish it. But it it it you know there's uh different uh ways of approaching it, and top lining is definitely probably the most it like you said, is the most common in pop and hip hop, I think, in terms of just um probably efficiency, you know. Yeah, especially when you're having to send files here and there uh th via the internet. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting approach, for sure. Yeah, and I think you know, this album, you know, it won the Grammy for uh album of the year, which rightfully so. I mean it was deserved. I agree with that. And not just because it was like a covert year or whatever, you know, it was like you said, it was a very well-received record pretty much across the board from every every um from the masses and critics and things like that. And I would definitely rank this in I would I mean honestly, this is probably my favorite album by her. I would say I would say so. I mean, I love I really enjoy Lover except for me. I like I like Evermore. Midnight's Is Decent, and I like 1989, and I like the Taylor's versions of the albums, especially like Red and Fearless, you know. But yeah, I think folklore definitely made a pretty unique impact that may or may not have otherwise happened uh because of COVID. Definitely. I don't I don't think it would have. Um I think that that's for sure. It's interesting too. This is the album that made her the record winner for most album of the years ever. This was a good one. It was this it was this. Yeah, because before it was 1989. Um speak now. No, midnight. Oh yeah. No, oh no, midnight speaker. Oh no, midnights was the one that that that got her the most wins then. Did Midnights come after? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah, because it was Evermore. Midnight's we were already back in person. Um, okay, okay. Yeah. I had that backwards. Yeah, Midnights was number four. Yeah. So that yeah, so folklore put put her at a tie. That put her at a tie then at the time. Who was she tied with? Um for female artists. Um overall. Oh, that would have been with Stevie Wonder. I think. Well, Stevie Wonder has has four Grammys for album of the year. That was okay. Um, I think it was Talking Book Intervisions, Fillingness First Finale, and Songs of the Key of Life. Those are four. I want to say, yeah. It might have e maybe it was him or Jay-Z, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think in Taylor's discography, this one might be second for me. I think Lover is my favorite record of hers, which it's just so funny because nobody nobody agrees with that, but I just love that record. I really love that record. Um, I think this would probably be second. Um, I think so. And then I don't know, the rest of the records are. What about Evermore? What about Evermore? Okay, so I was not a huge fan of Evermore. I think it felt um it felt like this record part two, and I just preferred this record. To me, it felt like more of the same, which I had a hard time getting into it. Do you feel like it was more of the same, or in the in the sense of like it was too much it in the sense like that it was maybe it felt like leftovers or yeah, that was how I felt at the time. I felt like, oh, this was the stuff that just wasn't like quite as good as the last record. I think I understand why she put it out. I I think that I would have done the same thing, but I think it was just like, huh, okay, that's just part two. And I I kind of dismissed it a little bit, to be honest. So on the side note, Taylor has the record with four. Previously, the record was three, and it was actually held by three artists Frank Sinatra, Stevie Wonder, and Paul Simon. They've all they all won at least uh well, they all won Alb of the Year at least three times. So now she's the most. Yeah, with four. Yeah, so that that makes sense. But the but the funny thing is, like the last time I think Paul Simon won Album of the Year, because he won for Still Crazy After All These Years, he won for Graceland, and he won for Bridge Over Troublewater, I believe, with Simon and Gardfunkel. But not since Graceland that there would have been an artist that had won that many Grammys for Album of the Year. Yeah, I I don't know if I would have given it to 1989, but or Midnight, personally. Well, I mean it was it well the funny thing was Midnights also beat out Kendrick again. Yeah. For Mr. Morales and the Big Steppers. Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Midnight, personally. I liked it, but it was it was it was like, you know, it was just um, you know, a pretty pretty good Taylor Swift record. I think I still enjoyed Lover more in terms of her more pop stuff, but you know, it was good. Um Mr. Morales and the Big Steppers was my favorite album of that year. And like I said on the previous episode, I listened to that album once, it was my favorite, and I cannot listen to it again. Here's the thing about me is I'm not a big bedroom pop girl, like in general, it's just not like I don't love kind of sad girl pop personally. And this is something I feel like you have to kind of know about yourself. Like there are things that people make that just aren't for you, and it doesn't mean that it's not bad that it's bad in any way. I just know that I'm not really a sad pop girl. So I think why I love this record so much is I am a folk pop. I am a folk girl for sure. And so this record really appealed to me, you know, same as like I really love I I really love Fearless. I really love her early stuff, right? Like when she was making kind of folk country stuff, I was really into it, you know. It's what I grew up on. Um But yeah, I think I think I love any anything that kind of re I think that's why I'm not a big like midnights person. I'm not a big like I didn't think midnights was so much bedroom pop. I think it was definitely a bigger sound. It was a bigger sound, but it was still kind of sad girl pop, and it just didn't quite like pique my Oh wow, that's so so cool. I've never heard that. Like like this this record for me, there are things lyrically I'm like, oh wow, I've like never heard somebody do that, and it's really inspiring to me. Um and there are definitely things in Taylor's Discord. Discography that I I think that about, and it it is very inspiring. Um, but there, you know, that's what's so amazing about an artist like her who's been around for literally 20 years, is she's had the time and the funding and the opportunity to build a catalog that at this point there is something for absolutely everybody in that catalog, and that is I mean, that is really impressive, and how many artists get the opportunity to do that. Especially uh for these records, I I say folklore and evermore, where Taylor had the opportunity to really kind of stretch herself out a bit more and go into, you know, territories she hadn't um hadn't before, or at least hadn't publicly before. I think that Taylor Slipped at her most authentic is a songwriter and a singer songwriter and a storyteller. So the records to me that that breathe more of that, I just really love that. I feel like it's the most authentically her. And folklore is probably the most representative of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, shall we uh start wrapping up with the two questions? So we always end with two questions. What's the first question? Why does this record matter to the culture? Well, I think especially in the time of COVID, you know, this was kind of as we were all sitting in our homes and nobody was performing, nobody was, you know, even some album releases had to get pushed back, tours had to get canceled, things like that. Folklore was pretty much the largest spotlight, I would say, in the music world at that time. But especially if you had your pulse in the music that was going on at that time or lack thereof, you know, folklore was the album that really, I think the vibe of that very much spoke to that time period, you know, that year we were all stuck inside. And in that way, uh, you know, it's it's interesting talking about these albums that are more current that we that came out in our lifetime, you know, so we can speak to how what those albums mean in those time periods that we ourselves live through, whether whether or not we were aware of it, but every we were definitely aware of this record. So I think in that way it's important, but I also think it is a milestone in 21st century writing for the singer-songwriter genre, for the pop genre, for the folk pop genre. You know, it's a it's an important record, I think, in a lot of those ways, and I think it'll continue to have influence over the years with certain artists that even were coming around out around that time, you know, people like Phoebe Bridgers and and and artists like that that were making kind of it more ethereal uh folk leaning folk sounding pop. Yeah. And and yes, artists were doing that well before Taylor was, but Taylor was with the folklore, this was a way of doing it for the masses or for her fan base, you know, to give a different flavor. So, in the terms of um of the culture of the Taylor Swift oeuvre, it's a huge milestone. Yeah. In music in general, it's also a milestone for the reasons I mentioned before. And just innovation, right? Like, what do you do when you're given a major pandemic and recording all separately and you know, stretching yourself poetically and lyrically? Like, there's a lot of innovation in this record that I think you have to respect. And specifically Taylor innovating yourself. Yeah. Um, second question: why should people listen to this record? Why should it be in their collection? I mean, I think if you're gonna own any Taylor Swift record, it would be this one. I I I I truly believe that because it's um, you know, it's not gonna be what you expect from Taylor Swift, especially for non-Swifties. If they're looking for something that's a little bit more um, you know, left of center, then this is a great album to uh to really dig into. And like you said before, um there is something for everybody on this record, probably more so than most of her other records. And it's just a great listen. Like we woke up and we listened to it in the morning, it's a Saturday morning, really beautiful weather outside. So you'll definitely it'll it's definitely a great album to really vibe with, even if you're not paying attention into it too much, but you should because there's a lot of really cool things in in here, especially with the lyrics. So I think that's why people should own it. It's just something that they can enjoy in any setting. And I really think like a lot of this record, the themes are writing stories in a very classic way, and in the end of the day, it created a very classic record. I think, you know, I think in 50 years, this is gonna be a record that holds up. I really, I really do. I think I agree. I think this production, I think the style of lyric writing, I think it's gonna be a very classic record for a lot of people that people look back on and say, that was a record that really inspired the next generation of writers. And yes. And um, yeah, I th I think it's an important record. Yes, I agree. All right. Well, thanks guys for tuning in to another episode of Home Records. If you like what you're hearing, you can follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever podcasts are available, where everywhere we can be. If you'd like to show your support, please give us five stars and be sure to spread the word to all your friends and family. And uh so thank you once again, and we'll see you next time. Bye guys. Bye.